kerrick
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Post by kerrick on Jan 7, 2006 23:17:02 GMT -5
"Nothing else counts"? Well, that's your opinion. I'm not sure why anyone would only believe in part of the Bible and not the rest of it (unless you're Jewish, then it's only the old testament). I mean, if you're going to believe in it, why not the whole thing, right? And I'm pretty sure that the 5 books of the Torah aren't a part of the Bible, at least not the conventional one. -Kerrick
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
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Post by BenMech on Jan 8, 2006 1:01:37 GMT -5
You answered your own question. And yet you DIDN't stop there. Why?
The whole thing IS the "old stuff". The rest that the christian world, as populous as they are, doesn't matter.
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kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
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Post by kerrick on Jan 8, 2006 15:48:37 GMT -5
Ok... no need to get angry here. Why is it that the "Christian world" "doesn't matter" though? Because I know a lot of people who think that it does matter. Really, that's just arrogant to say that someone's beliefs "don't matter" just because you don't agree with them. I'm not trying to "convert" you or anything, just defend my position, but I would appreciate it if you were at least mature and respectful about all this. -Kerrick
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SethFWF
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"Rattle your God damn head!"
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Post by SethFWF on Jan 9, 2006 20:33:05 GMT -5
There were a few purposes for the Old Testament, but one of the most important was to trace the bloodline to Jesus and document the downfall of Isreal leading up to Jesus' birth and the beginning of Christianity. Both parts of the bible are intertwined, the New Testament as important as the Old.
There's nothing viable out there that says only 5 books are legit, you either believe the beginning, middle, and end...or none.
Seth
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
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Post by Shark Black on Jan 10, 2006 1:17:15 GMT -5
I believe in Santa Damnit! ;D
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BenMech
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The One You Warned Me Of
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Post by BenMech on Jan 10, 2006 8:37:29 GMT -5
There were a few purposes for the Old Testament, but one of the most important was to trace the bloodline to Jesus and document the downfall of Isreal leading up to Jesus' birth and the beginning of Christianity. Both parts of the bible are intertwined, the New Testament as important as the Old. There's nothing viable out there that says only 5 books are legit, you either believe the beginning, middle, and end...or none. Seth One of Judaisms's main tenets is that there has not EVER been a messiah, and we are still searching (reluctantly) for one. So the whole tale of Yeshua ben Yosef and everything after (whom you folks call JC) is irrelevant. One of Christianity's main tenets is "steal from the past, twist everything, and mock the previous storytellers into extinction". So save your dogma for someone else. I can respect that you were raised in some big gloppy mess. I can't respect that you infer/imply/directly state Christianity is THE ONLY way, or the only important way.
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kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
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Post by kerrick on Jan 10, 2006 14:58:02 GMT -5
...ok? Well, I'm sorry if I seemed preachy - I didn't mean to. I can see that we are not getting anywhere, so I think I will just stop. Again, I did not want to force my beliefs on anyone, just defend a position. I'm sorry for offending anyone. -Kerrick
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Jan 10, 2006 20:20:00 GMT -5
Insincere apology noted, but not neccessarily accepted
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Jan 10, 2006 22:53:03 GMT -5
Yo BenDawg, wanna relax a bit? I'm not exactly a god-fearing man, yet I see no need to get ugly about this. So homeboy embraces religion where you (and I) reject it. So what? What's the problem?
The most significant thing about the bible and the torah is that they are highly regarded texts that trace hebrew and arab ancestry to one common source. I find that (and several others) a valid reason for those bozos duking it out over Palestine/Zion/Israel/whatever to figure something out like reasonable human beings.
That Jesus guy had some good ideas, but even the earliest accounts of his life were not written until a good 50 years after he was executed.
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
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Post by BenMech on Jan 11, 2006 8:00:22 GMT -5
Gonzo: I can let go of the topic easily. I'll agree that the ideas that jesus dude had were probably alright.
What does anger me is Kerrick or Fox or RBH or Seth's underlying point that somehow Judaism was designed to create "the better system". They're UNRELATED, although Christianity in all form is kinda parasitic.
History scholars know the text used by the Hebrews was altered by early Christians sometime between 400 and 800 C.E. some time following the polytheistic roman empire fell apart into monotheism. The Israelities used the real records, but the Christians kept altering it like a game of telephone, so the line's end nowhere near resembles the origin point.
This is not to say I follow dogma of Judaism, but I do resent when other people who claim to be spiritual or knowledgable construct wild concepts and tie them as Judeo-Christian, when there's no Judeo in their logic. None.
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Fox
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Post by Fox on Jan 11, 2006 9:15:23 GMT -5
What does anger me is Kerrick or Fox or RBH or Seth's underlying point that somehow Judaism was designed to create "the better system". They're UNRELATED, although Christianity in all form is kinda parasitic. What in the hell are you talking about?
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Shark Black
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AKA Raiderblack
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Post by Shark Black on Jan 11, 2006 17:07:26 GMT -5
He's talking about when Santa parted the red sea...
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SethFWF
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"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Jan 11, 2006 19:30:51 GMT -5
Yo BenDawg, wanna relax a bit? I'm not exactly a god-fearing man, yet I see no need to get ugly about this. So homeboy embraces religion where you (and I) reject it. So what? What's the problem? It's cool Gonzo, the only thing that offends me is people who are too easily offended. However, I do have a problem with people attributing words, sentences, or entire thoughts to me when I never wrote them(message board translation: putting words in my mouth). So if you could Ben, please cite the thread and exact quote from now on if you want to pick apart something I wrote. Certainly in the quote box of your last response to me you'll find nothing that resembles me saying that 'Christianity is THE ONLY way, or the only important way.' I said, one of the main objectives of the Old Testament was to document this history of Isreal leading up to Christ. The entire Old Testament is full of prophecy after prophecy about the coming of God's son. Whether you want to believe or not that he ever existed is irrelevant, I never said you should and I know I never said that Christianity is the only way. As to your last post, history scholars vary greatly on what they believe happened during Bible times...many of them concur on the exact opposite of what you said regarding Jesus and what those horrible Christians did after him. There's no doubt that organized religion on the whole has distorted every possible good thing that any ancient or original teaching taught, on that I know we agree. But it's not reasonable to chastise someone who does believe in original teachings and simply states why they do in these discussions, as long as they're not telling you that you're an idiot, a sinner and will burn in hell...there's a big difference. I would like to note though that Bret's joking comment about believing in Santa is more reasonable than full out evolution and no ID/Creator...but that's IMO of course and shouldn't offend anyone. Seth
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Jan 11, 2006 20:03:03 GMT -5
It's cool Gonzo, the only thing that offends me is people who are too easily offended. Oh yeah? Let's see how badly this offends you: I was talking about kerrick!!! You are NOT the center of the universe, Sethboy!!! heh heh... Honestly, I would like to believe in some sort of all-powerful, benevolent deity. I just can't. Catholicism can scar you, man... and no, no priest ever butt-raped me in my altar-boy days.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Jan 11, 2006 20:21:03 GMT -5
#ohgoon# Well, I thought since he went off on me more...but you're right about none of us being that important. God knows(pun intended), some people take themselves far too seriously. Agree about Catholicism BTW, glad you never got the staff and rod... Seth
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