SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 22, 2005 20:43:59 GMT -5
Good points and in some ways perfectly reasonable. The problem is that religion has to stay separate from gov't, and I'm a pretty spiritual(moreso than religious) person...but I can't deny that cornerstone of the constitution. Especially since I rail so hard against the politicians that want to run the country via Jesus. Another road block beyond that is that it will never happen simply because of the diversity of religions and cultures in this country. So this is more of a 'why it won't happen' as opposed to 'why it shouldn't happen' reason. Religion in general is a major problem right now, for the record I'm not a big fan of organized religion...but what's happening is a major rift over what it's place is. Some want more of it, in gov't and in general and others want it abolished completely. So the attempt at bringing it into public schools will never fly, unless of course the fanatics completely take over the gov't...then we might be living in our own little Taliban... Seth
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Dec 23, 2005 6:07:45 GMT -5
But none of that proves that there is/was no intelligent design behind the whole thing. And I'm not saying it's impossible, but improbable that even the science of evolution itself developed randomly and out of nothingness. Sounds like Creationism. Why doesn't anybody call 'intelligent design' by what it really is?
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 23, 2005 6:38:13 GMT -5
They're the same thing I guess, saying intelligent design just makes me sound more intelligent... #ohgoon#
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Dec 23, 2005 13:57:23 GMT -5
They're the same thing I guess, saying intelligent design just makes me sound more intelligent... #ohgoon# No offense, Seth, but no it doesn't. It reeks of deceit. I don't see how any self-respecting creationist would actually stoop marketing their beliefs as if they were a product. I guess that's one of the right-wing's fortes...
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 23, 2005 16:12:07 GMT -5
I have no idea what that means, I'm neither right wing, nor left wing...I've never tried to market my beliefs here, just discussed them maturely as everyone else has with their beliefs.
And that comment was meant to be humorous as the smiley-goon-icon would suggest. I don't feel I'm any more intelligent than anyone here, likely a lot less.
Seth
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Dec 23, 2005 17:40:42 GMT -5
And that comment was meant to be humorous as the smiley-goon-icon would suggest. I caught that. I simply said that because a lot of ID proponents seem to actually think that way.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 23, 2005 18:10:31 GMT -5
I caught that. I simply said that because a lot of ID proponents seem to actually think that way. If you knew me personally you would know that's not me. I have very strong beliefs, but there's nothing worse than people trying to shove their beliefs down someone's throat who doesn't want to hear it. These discussions generally seem to carry on without much offense to anyone, but if it does...I know what to do... #cheers# Seth
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Dec 24, 2005 12:41:43 GMT -5
(snip)but there's nothing worse than people trying to shove their beliefs down someone's throat who doesn't want to hear it. Seth The people who generally "don't wanna hear it" are the people with STRONGLY held traditionalist/dogmatic/conservative PoVs, namely the pro-Biblical creationists.
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kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
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Post by kerrick on Dec 24, 2005 21:22:09 GMT -5
(snip)but there's nothing worse than people trying to shove their beliefs down someone's throat who doesn't want to hear it. Seth The people who generally "don't wanna hear it" are the people with STRONGLY held traditionalist/dogmatic/conservative PoVs, namely the pro-Biblical creationists. Well... Those are the people who don't want to hear the evolutionary theories. But the people who "don't wanna hear it" can also be the evolutionists as well. The thing is, is that everyone has their own beliefs and stuff, and they don't really want to hear other's beliefs. You think that evolution is true and you don't want to hear about all the creation stuff, just like I believe in creation and don't want to hear the evolution stuff. It's not that either of our beliefs are better than the other's, but we just believe in different things. I don't think that they should teach creation in the classroom of public schools, but if they teach evolution, which usually opposes many people's beliefs, they should be able to at least put creation in terms of a possibility, because if it wasn't, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Evolution is a possibility, yes there are many "scientific facts" that point towards it, but there are just as many proving the Bible to be true as well. The truth is, no one knows for sure, so from my perspective, they shouldn't be teaching possibilities as facts. Anyways, sorry for ranting for so long, and have a merry Christmas, or happy holidays or whatever is politically correct these days. -Kerrick
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 24, 2005 21:45:30 GMT -5
On that note... #cheers# to everyone, hope you all have a great X-mas eve and day tomorrow.
I'm stuffed and ready to watch my new FW DVD, I knew I'd get it... #rockin# I feel like a little kid!
Seth
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Dec 25, 2005 13:52:06 GMT -5
The people who generally "don't wanna hear it" are the people with STRONGLY held traditionalist/dogmatic/conservative PoVs, namely the pro-Biblical creationists. Well... Those are the people who don't want to hear the evolutionary theories. But the people who "don't wanna hear it" can also be the evolutionists as well. The thing is, is that everyone has their own beliefs and stuff, and they don't really want to hear other's beliefs. You think that evolution is true and you don't want to hear about all the creation stuff, just like I believe in creation and don't want to hear the evolution stuff. It's not that either of our beliefs are better than the other's, but we just believe in different things. I don't think that they should teach creation in the classroom of public schools, but if they teach evolution, which usually opposes many people's beliefs, they should be able to at least put creation in terms of a possibility, because if it wasn't, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Evolution is a possibility, yes there are many "scientific facts" that point towards it, but there are just as many proving the Bible to be true as well. The truth is, no one knows for sure, so from my perspective, they shouldn't be teaching possibilities as facts. Anyways, sorry for ranting for so long, and have a merry Christmas, or happy holidays or whatever is politically correct these days. -Kerrick Once again, you're just plain wrong. It's not about "what one believes". We have physical evidence that the young earth idea is bad and lazy and sloppy, namely Fossils, trees too. The bible is semi quasi decent poetry perhaps, but it's not verifiably factual. Btw, All that stuff about Jesus and his pals and enemies - not part of the bible. There are only five books, ya know? Then the judges then the psalms. That's it, IF YOU WANNA BE TECHNICAL. Everything else is BUNK (not that The Torah isn't bunk). Btw, the reason we say happy holidays is because there are other people in the world who aren't Christian, nor should they be. Those fundamentalist idiots forget that. They assume everyone uses their belief system.
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kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
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Post by kerrick on Dec 25, 2005 23:24:34 GMT -5
What do you mean about there only being 5 books in the Bible? I've never heard that idea before. And as for everything being bunk in it, well, I've heard some a lot of information that proves that statement false. Historically, the events have been proved true, but the spiritual, etc. stuff is of course debateable. I'll see if I can round up some of the stuff I'm talking about and post it here for anyone who cares. The fact is, is that I've been raised in a Christian environment and that's what I've learned. You (Ben) probably weren't and learned evolution instead. I think that somewhere in "The Fullness of Time" it says that we are what our past has made us, or something like that, and I think it's pretty true. Well, sorry if I offended you, and yes I do understand the reason we say "happy holidays" and I apologize for saying "merry Christmas." -Kerrick
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Fox
Monument http://www.fateswa
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Post by Fox on Jan 3, 2006 10:38:49 GMT -5
Macro evolution is far from fact (species giving birth to a different species), and should be treated as such.
Science is only answering "how" things happen, keep the rest in philosophy class.
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kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
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Post by kerrick on Jan 7, 2006 1:22:43 GMT -5
Words of wisdom.
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Jan 7, 2006 19:34:00 GMT -5
What do you mean about there only being 5 books in the Bible? 5 books of the Torah, plus 3 Judges, plus Psalms. Nothing else counts. That is, if the Bible" is a religious document of any weight. Oh wait, those other things afterwards? akin to bonus tracks on a reissue.
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