This Shiavo thing...any thoughts?

[spyder]

i feel for this girl, more than her husband or family. she's a vegetable and if she could feel like her parent's claim she wouldn't be smiling.

her husband, stands to gain financially with her death. i believe, he's already with another woman with kids. now, i could see that he's a little more sincere if he'd sign all the financial rights over to her parents or charity/research for other victims like his wife.

i heard on the news, briefly, as i napped today that her death would be like bleeding to death without the gore. it'd be a painless death, simply getting really sleepy until she dies. also, i thought i heard them say it would be in a day or so.

sad story. if i were ever in that condition i wouldn't want to live. i mean, it's not living laying in a bed being kept alive by a feeding tube. not being able to speak or relate i'd be better off gone.

[Shark Black]

[Here's a weird question....if all these religious people, whether Christian/Catholic or whatever want the best for her...why not let her go on to a better existance? All religious people believe in an afterlife of some sort(uh oh...here we go mixing threads again... ), so why would they want her to live on this fucked up planet in this fucked up condition??!!

I can't get over the whacked thinking and ideology going on here.

Seth[/quote]

I hear ya! Let the poor girl rest in peace.

Apparently it's what she wanted. At least thats what the courts have ruled. These people need to deal with the outcome and just let her go.

[SethFWF]

I really feel for the family, how could you not? But the more I thought about it, I started to think they aren't considering her best interests. They're blinded by emotion, but the fact is they want her around them...whatever the condition, which means they're looking out for their own interests.

As far as her husband, there apparantly will be some financial gain when she dies, but considering how much time and money he's spent...I don't think it's that much and isn't really his motivation. I'm always looking for the bad in people, but this guy seems sincere to me. I'm sure he feels that she would not want to be paraded on TV like this and be a burden to him and her family anymore.

Hopefully it is a painless death and she'll be at peace soon.

Seth

[Sir Van Talvin]

Now that she is dead I would like to offer up my musings.

1) If she really did not want to continue living in a brain-damaged state then why did it take her nearly 2 weeks to die? Why did she exhibit a seeming will to live? Most--if not all--people can simply "give up" on life, but then again her brain-damaged state may have had an effect on her intentions. JEEZ!!! Did I just answer my own question[/i][/b]????

2) Regardless of what her intentions might have been, wouldn't it have been better for the husband to surrender his guardianship over to her parents and let them foot the bill for her care? To me that's a no-lose situation.




#nosmileys
#nosmileys

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: FWX: Wish

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#nosmileys

[SethFWF]

As far as your second question, I thought the same thing for some time. Still kinda feel that way, but we can't really gauge how far his moral obligation to her drove him. That's why over time I started to think he was sincere, he really wasn't going to gain much with her death. Maybe his conscience couldn't be quieted until he felt her wishes were carried out. It likely got worse for him when she became TV fodder more and more and if he knew she would especially not want that...he had to continue with his fight to let her die.

Isn't it interesting how this small case is again splitting the country with regards to religion. Wonder what kind of different legislation will be written now?

Seth

[Sir Van Talvin]

All I know is if somebody offered to take the burden of caring for a loved one off of my hands I wouldn't fight so hard to refuse that offer. Surrendering guardianship to somebody who wants to take on the burden is the sort of thing that NOBODY would protest, hold candlelight vigils, or go on symbolic hunger strikes.

[BenMech]

She should have been given a morphine drip years ago, privately, no political interference.

[Sir Van Talvin]

BenMech said:

She should have been given a morphine drip years ago, privately, no political interference.

That's the sort of thing that people would protest against. Would you protest her parents assuming guardianship AND the financial burden of care?

[SethFWF]

I can understand how that would have been a win/win, but he must have not cared about relieving himself from the burden as much as letting her die as she wished(according to him anyway).

It's a fine line between murder and letting someone go who wants to, especially when those people can't speak for themselves. Those are moral questions each person really needs to ask themselves when the time comes, not easy by any means...but also no real defined answers either way.

Seth

[Sir Van Talvin]

SethFWF said:

I can understand how that would have been a win/win, but he must have not cared about relieving himself from the burden as much as letting her die as she wished(according to him anyway).

It's a fine line between murder and letting someone go who wants to, especially when those people can't speak for themselves. Those are moral questions each person really needs to ask themselves when the time comes, not easy by any means...but also no real defined answers either way.

Seth

That's the key thing: we'll never know what she really wanted and we only have Michael's word for it. However, if she wanted to go then why didn't she die sooner?

[SethFWF]

Agreed, and that's why there are no real clear answers. I would suggest though that her not dying was as involuntary as every other movement or sound she made. If she really was in a completely vegetative state, I would think she wouldn't even be able to allow herself to die, involuntary or otherwise. She would have to realize the state she was in to make that decision which she likely had no idea...of her past or present.

I don't know, it's still a tough one for me. Guess we should make out those living wills lest we become the next political pawn paraded on TV. They say to keep an updated power of attorney document along with it so there's no questions as to what you want done...and who is allowed to decide.

Seth

[Fox]

When I looked at her eyes I could see someone at home. Watch the brief video clips they show her eyes are following a balloon and other people around the room.

My uncle was confined to a bed for 30+ years before he died. He did not need a feeding tube, but he couldn't talk and he couldn't feed himself. I never thought much of this case until I saw that video, and it just reminded me of him.

Besides that most curious to me is why did it take Michael Schaivo 8 years to decide/remember she wanted to die? Is this guy not the world's largest fucktard?

[Sir Van Talvin]

Fox said:

When I looked at her eyes I could see someone at home. Watch the brief video clips they show her eyes are following a balloon and other people around the room.

My uncle was confined to a bed for 30+ years before he died. He did not need a feeding tube, but he couldn't talk and he couldn't feed himself. I never thought much of this case until I saw that video, and it just reminded me of him.

Besides that most curious to me is why did it take Michael Schaivo 8 years to decide/remember she wanted to die? Is this guy not the world's largest fucktard?

Whoa! I'd be careful about bringing up the video thing because that clip had been edited. The reports are that Terri's mom spent a looooong time talking and coaxing Terri before there was anything resembling a response. Various judges had viewed the unedited version of that video and didn't find it very moving.

On the other hand your uncle's experience does give you a rather unique insight into this case that we all have to acknowledge.

I need more information on Micheal Schiavo's timeline of actions before I decide whether or not to vilify him.

[SethFWF]

Don't agree, he held on to hope for 8 years that she could recover. He also had an excellent relationship with her family during that time when they were all hoping and trying to bring her back. But when all the doctors told them she had no chance of any kind of recovery, he said she would not want to live in this state the rest of her life...of course that's when the dissent began.

The doctors the family began to ask for help recently may have been giving the arguement that she could recover to postpone Micheals decision. If they were on the pro-life side, they would say whatever would help that cause...I'm not siding against them necessarily, but dozens of other doctors up to that point made it clear that she had no hope. Therefore, M. Schiavo made his decision at that point.

None of us really can know for sure what the real case was or best decision would have been. We have our opinions, but the bottom line is she's in a better place one way or another than she was. I don't understand why religious people with beliefs in the afterlife would prefer her to sit like that than to go on to a better existance.

Seth

[Fox]

www.miami.edu/ethics/schiavo/timeline.htm