Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
|
Post by Shark Black on Feb 8, 2006 0:13:50 GMT -5
"In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the proposed contest “outrageous.”
“Any attempt to mock or to in any way denigrate the horror that was the Holocaust is simply outrageous,” McCormack said." Wrong thing to say, true as it is. But this is the exact response they want, it's OK for one type of freedom of expression or press, but not another if it offends a different group. For consistencies sake, he should have said, 'freedom to print what you want extends to all circumstances, we will choose not to look at or support those cartoons from this contest...and we would suggest the Muslims ignore the ones from Europe.' Seth “Any attempt to mock or to in any way denigrate the horror that was the Holocaust is simply outrageous,” But this is a true statement... There is a huge difference. No you can say that both issues are in very very bad taste and offensive to many BUT WE WON"T BURN DOWN BUILDINGS AND KILL PEOPLE WHEN YOU MAKE A HOLOCAUST CARTOON. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
|
Post by kerrick on Feb 8, 2006 1:29:08 GMT -5
Hey, Kerrick, didn't anyone ever tell you not to fall for Ben's baiting tactics? Yeah, I saw it coming, but I had to add something, and the idea of Muslim black metal struck me as kind of funny. Plus, I don't see this becoming another religious "debate" #rollingeyes# like last time... I sure hope that this kind of crap (referring to the original topic) doesn't find its way to America. What, with everything having to be so politically correct all the time, we're practically already there anyways. But there's hope that people will see what extreme political correctness is doing over in Europe and stuff and learn something from it, preventing it from happening elsewhere, though unlikely. -Kerrick
|
|
SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
|
Post by SethFWF on Feb 8, 2006 6:46:21 GMT -5
“Any attempt to mock or to in any way denigrate the horror that was the Holocaust is simply outrageous,” But this is a true statement... There is a huge difference. No you can say that both issues are in very very bad taste and offensive to many BUT WE WON"T BURN DOWN BUILDINGS AND KILL PEOPLE WHEN YOU MAKE A HOLOCAUST CARTOON. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Very true, but even though it probably wouldn't work(cuz we're dealing with idiots here)...it would be nice to see the gov't use precise wording to make these guys feel dumb. Seth
|
|
BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
|
Post by BenMech on Feb 8, 2006 11:23:49 GMT -5
BAITING TACTICS???
Baiting Tactics???
As if every thought I have is strategic. Jeez.
Btw, Islamic BM does exist, quietly. Indonesia, which hosts the largest Islamic population in the world, just had it outlawed outright.
|
|
Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
|
Post by Sir Van Talvin on Feb 8, 2006 13:17:10 GMT -5
When you post something that has the potential to offend and/or inflame certain people, yeah, I'd call that a baiting tactic. Were you not trying to piss anybody off? Maybe reading about this will make you happy.
|
|
kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
|
Post by kerrick on Feb 8, 2006 13:35:32 GMT -5
Ben, just out of curiosity, do you know any of the names of these bands? The closest I can think of is Orphaned Land, which incoporate Islamic, Christian, and Judeasm into their lyrics, but they're not quite black metal. -Kerrick
|
|
BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
|
Post by BenMech on Feb 9, 2006 0:17:54 GMT -5
Orphaned Land's members are Jewish, and they're from Israel. And they were oriental doom/death metal for a while, closer to doom/heavy oriental metal now.
|
|
BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
|
Post by BenMech on Feb 9, 2006 0:20:00 GMT -5
When you post something that has the potential to offend and/or inflame certain people, yeah, I'd call that a baiting tactic. Were you not trying to piss anybody off? Maybe reading about this will make you happy. Yeah, I'm aware of the Alabama church burnings. I made note of it/them in my LiveJournal entry Monday night. ( benmech.livejournal.com ).
|
|
kerrick
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 430
|
Post by kerrick on Feb 9, 2006 0:49:14 GMT -5
Orphaned Land's members are Jewish, and they're from Israel. And they were oriental doom/death metal for a while, closer to doom/heavy oriental metal now. Yes Ben, I'm aware that they're from Israel. I actually have all three of their [studio] albums and am aware of what kind of music they play. What I was referring to is this: As the dedication of the album to God, "SHIR HASHIRIM" is the song of the songs. It cross-checks the 3 principles monotheistic religions: Judaism, Islam and Christianity. All based on the same God, it result a specific poem's structure in 3 parts. Each of those parts is dedicated to one of them: a prayer for each religion. I'ts referring to the album "El Norra Alila" and the rest of the meaning is on their website, www.orphaned-land.com/default.php?language=en Also, if you have read the lyrics to "Mabool" you'll notice that it too is about the 3 monotheistic religions as well, combining elements of all 3. And in the first song ("The Sahara's Storm") on "Sahara," Jihad is mentioned in the context of "tainting a sword with blood, in the name of Jihad" or something like that. -Kerrick
|
|
BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
|
Post by BenMech on Feb 9, 2006 3:01:33 GMT -5
Yep, you're correct, and yes I have read the lyric liners, and yes I do know those points.
|
|
Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
|
Post by Sir Van Talvin on Feb 9, 2006 12:14:37 GMT -5
... I sure hope that this kind of crap (referring to the original topic) doesn't find its way to America. What, with everything having to be so politically correct all the time, we're practically already there anyways. But there's hope that people will see what extreme political correctness is doing over in Europe and stuff and learn something from it, preventing it from happening elsewhere, though unlikely. It's already happening here. Read this article about a small newspaper's "struggle" (to put it lightly) with hypocrisy. I really hope this cartoon issue opens up a lot of eyes to the kinds of people we're dealing with here. This is a clash of cultures with one side taking a much harder line than the other, yet the response has always been to try to "understand" or compromise with them. When will people ever learn that appeasement NEVER works? Europeans -- of all people -- should already have learned this lesson after Neville Chamberlain (in)famously waved a document signed by Hitler and declared, "I believe we have peace in our time!" (Well, okay, the Brits are somewhat of an exception, but I believe it's because that lesson has been punctuated by their decades-long conflict with the IRA. But I digress....) Instead, European leaders are vacillating and/or running for cover while some courageous newspapers re-print the cartoons in defense of free speech/press and in defiance of attempted censorship through intimidation. To further illustrate the point of there being a clash of cultures, I'll quote the MSNBC News Services ( hyperlink here): Nasrallah said there would be no compromise before Denmark apologizes and the European Parliament and individual assemblies in Europe pass laws that prohibit insulting the prophet. Nasrallah is, of course, the leader of Hezbollah, a very reasonable and moderate Islamic group dedicated to the peaceful transition of Palestinians to self-rule......BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA #loldevil#! I can't believe I actually typed all that with a straight face. #ohgoon#Anyhow, of course, we have a typical politically correct and spineless counter-offer, or "solution": The European Union, meanwhile, sought to calm tension, calling for a voluntary media code of conduct to avoid inflaming relgious sensibilities. So on the one hand we have a hard-liner saying, "No compromise!" and on the other hand we have a soft-liner saying, "Please, let us compromise." HELLO? And then there's Dubya walking a ridiculously fine line between standing up for freedom of the press and not offending Muslim sensibilities around the world. HELLO? Why can't Western leaders rise up as one voice in defense of our collective democratic values? They all need to grow some backbones.
|
|
BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
|
Post by BenMech on Feb 10, 2006 0:43:40 GMT -5
Dubbya only believes in freedom of the press because he doesn't read newspapers
|
|
Virtual Scott
Monument http://www.fateswa
At Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Learn to do Other Stuff Good Too
Posts: 291
|
Post by Virtual Scott on Feb 16, 2006 15:41:44 GMT -5
When religious fervor is added to the mix, regardless of the topic of discussion, all bets are out the window and this pertains to the fundamentalists and extremists in this country as well. BUT... if I am not mistaken, the controversy that grows from this story is that some of these same papers refused to publish a similar carachiture of Jesus Christ a number of times over the years (one fairly recently), but it's all of a sudden open season on Muhammed? The one thing I am not confused about is the lengths that anyone of extreme religious devotion will go to, to force feed their beliefs down others throats.
|
|
Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
|
Post by Sir Van Talvin on Feb 16, 2006 22:33:12 GMT -5
Ahhh...I see! So it's not just Middle Eastern Muslims who'll go to great lengths and blame an entire nation for the deeds of a free and independent news media?
|
|
Fox
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 368
|
Post by Fox on Feb 17, 2006 10:18:09 GMT -5
When religious fervor is added to the mix, regardless of the topic of discussion, all bets are out the window and this pertains to the fundamentalists and extremists in this country as well. BUT... if I am not mistaken, the controversy that grows from this story is that some of these same papers refused to publish a similar carachiture of Jesus Christ a number of times over the years (one fairly recently), but it's all of a sudden open season on Muhammed? The one thing I am not confused about is the lengths that anyone of extreme religious devotion will go to, to force feed their beliefs down others throats. Good for the papers then, the history of Isalm is one of a vile double standard.
|
|