Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Aug 4, 2005 20:22:06 GMT -5
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Fox
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 368
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Post by Fox on Aug 5, 2005 13:57:32 GMT -5
Dumb, you do not have a right to ride the subway. Don't like it, don't ride.
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Aug 5, 2005 14:48:16 GMT -5
What gets me is the use of words like "ineffective" and "publicity stunt" in an attempt to bolster their argument. The ONLY issue is whether or not the searches are constitutional. No court has the purview (nor should they) to ban activities solely on the finding of "ineffective" or "publicity stunt" -- it can't even be taken into consideration! No, rather, it is the NYCLU's attempt to play this in the court of public opinion being the reason why they use these words -- which is, in fact, a "publicity stunt" on their part and may turn out to be "ineffective".
However, if subway searches are a violation of 4th Amendment rights, then what about the airports? My stance is that of consistency: all modes of transportation must be treated equally. If subway searches are unconstitutional, then so are airport searches; if constitutional, then the same applies to airports (which evidently already does).
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Aug 20, 2005 17:12:11 GMT -5
It's to bad the ACLU doesn't use their powers for good rather than stupidity. I mean this group supports NAMBLA for Christs sake! Civil Liberties are very important in this country, but if these people had their way, there would be no laws...you could rape and kill and molest all you wanted.
Someone said on TV that we have to start profiling if we're going to be secure over here. And the border issue is way out of hand too, I would love to see a politician run for president and say 'we're going to shut the border down, anyone that wants to come in here will have to go through a procedure to do so legally'. That would be refreshing to just have him/her say it knowing they'd lose the hispanic vote and see what happens. Of course following through is a whole other issue...watch out! Here comes the ACLU again!
As far as the checkpoints at the subways, what the hell does anyone care unless they're carrying a bomb or illegal weapon? Deal with it and shut the hell up! These are the same people who would sue the gov't if a bomb did go off and killed one of their family. You can't win when people too far left or right are being heard though.
Seth
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Aug 20, 2005 21:28:51 GMT -5
Hehe...looks like the only ones interested in this topic are the anti-ACLU crowd. Where are the granola-eating, sandal-wearing, B.O.-reeking, tree-hugging pinko-communists? I hope my position isn't misunderstood. I acknowledge that the 4th Amendment is sort of a sticking point with regards to searches. It COULD be intepreted to mean that searches are not allowed and it COULD be interpreted to mean that some searches are okay. Neither decision would sit well with me. The only solution to this conundrum is to AMEND the Constitution. To muddle things even further, I remember a quote from one of the Founders (whose identity still escapes me) : "Those who desire both liberty and security deserve neither." Most likely not a word-for-word quote, but that's the gist of it.
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Aug 21, 2005 0:21:10 GMT -5
As with most Constitutional amendment issues, it is a grey area, with both pros and cons. Only shallow headed "red state Republican swine" would try to make Absolute statements about any issue
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Aug 21, 2005 10:25:21 GMT -5
Like all War is Bad! All Censorship Is Bad! President Bush is Evil! Republicans are Racist! All Abortion should be legal! We should not build Nuclear Power plants! We should not drill for new oil! We are losing in Iraq, Pull out now!
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Aug 21, 2005 12:10:49 GMT -5
This is why I still can't understand why anyone would take a stand on either side, especially their extreme sides. None of those things should be absolutes, unfortunaltely war is necessary(unless it's not) which leads to the fact that Bush is not evil...a little misguided perhaps. All of the other issues have a lot of gray area, but if you're taking the party line on either side...you can't see the gray area. Just what your party says and the other side is absolutely wrong.
IMO, citizens should not be members of any political party...they tend to follow the leaders no matter where they take them. They can feel the way they feel and vote appropriately, but to think that any average citizen really knows what's going on behind political doors is absurd. We're kept in the dark for a reason, and should think for ourselves rather than blindly follow the party line.
Seth
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Joe-×
Simple Human http://www.fat
Posts: 50
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Post by Joe-× on Aug 26, 2005 9:35:08 GMT -5
Anyone want to take a stance on this? Sure. I'll take a stance on it. The issue is moot. The US Constitution places limits on the authority of government in a manner that expressly forbids these types of searches. So what? The US Constitution places limits on the authority of government in a manner that forbids 95% of the functions that government does. So what? The US Constitution is a worthless piece of crap. It was created to put limits on government. It failed. Burn it already. The US government does whatever it wants. The government declared itself the owners of all public space and most private space. The government declared itself the owners of all US citizens. Since the places and the people are the property of the US government, the government can do whatever it wants to either or any. The majority of the citizens of the USA is OK with that. Until I have the power to actively resist or defend myself against the coercive acts of the government, there's no point in whining about it. Most US citizens are completely ignorant of liberty and unwilling to think about it. With most people, there's no point in even discussing it. Joe
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Aug 29, 2005 22:10:02 GMT -5
The constitution guards against "unreasonable searches and seizures". As with searches to get on an airplane, getting searched before getting on any public transit form in today's environment can hardly be considered unreasonable. Most people feel it might be a little more important to be protected from being blown up than to be protected from being able to take a bag of weed on to a train.
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