How come no one's talking about London?

[Sir Van Talvin]

Do we not care? Are we that jaded to terrorism committed overseas? Or are we too busily occupied with other things that attract our attention (like me!)?

I don't know what surprises me more: that no one has yet brought it up here, or that I'm just now bringing it up in light of everyone else's apparent reluctance to talk about.

[SethFWF]

I guess we'd just be stating the obvious, it's no surprise really...of course I'm sure we all feel horrible about it and know that it's wrong...etc...

They're going to go after anyone associated with the war in Iraq, it's basically a call to Jihad against any and all infadels that are in the Middle East at all. There are things that can be done, IMO the money spent on Iraq could have been spent on securing the borders of all peace loving democratic countries that would be in their cross-hairs eventually. That's a huge undertaking and would likely need even more money than that, but it's better than what we've done...and we could easily use the billions spent on space travel to help protect ourselves too. Doesn't make much sense how the gov't has handled this whole 'terror' situation, there's only so much they can do...but they haven't done the most important things yet. So we'll continue to see these things happen around the world and fear that they'll happen here again...an "Infinite War".

Seth

[Shark Black]

The London Bombings were homegrown. No Border Patrol could have stopped them. It was a few other kids that fell to the evil ideology. The ideo;ogy that kills innocent people. And what is wrong with the job our country has done to prevent terrorism in the US. There have been no terrorist incidents since 9-11-2001. Absolutley phenominal. There were more terrorsit incidents during the Clinton years. And as for our Space program, I support it fully. It's the only way out when this planet is over populated. And thats not so far off. And as For Iraq? We are unequivocally doing the right thing there. We will win there. Iraq will be a free democratic country. We will continue to capture and kill the evil bastards who do these things. And the more the bastards bomb innocent muslims the less support they get from the people in the middle east. Their days are numbered, the Iraqi government gets stronger everyday and we will begin to withdraw our troops in 2006.

Because the fact is, we know what happens when we do nothing... Khobar Towers, Kenya, World Trade Center Twice, The Cole, Lockerby etc...

[Sir Van Talvin]

It's true we'd be stating the obvious, but I'm just surprised at the seeming lack of interest. Of course it could be just a simple fact of geopolitics: i.e., we're mostly Americans on this board. I saw on another board where there was 9 pages worth of postings on the topic. There, too, was the fact of geopolitics: i.e., Europeans were quite well represented in the forumites there.

Shark, you make a good point about there being no terrorist attacks against us, but I think you need to be a little more specific and mention two things: 1) there have been attacks against our people on foreign soil (Iraq, etc.), and 2) there have been some attempts to attack us on our home soil (they're always plotting to do so). Our vigilance has improved, but there still are some serious flaws that need fixing. I'm uncomfortable with trumpeting our good fortune thus far because of the simple fact that it's not a matter of "if" we'll get hit again but "when". Of course, "when" that happens again we'll just have to go out and kick some more @ss!

Seth, you mentioned something that has now made me take this thread on a drift: money spent on space. Sharkie's point about overpopulation is something I take with a grain of salt. I don't believe this world will ever be overpopulated because of the forces in this world that serve to cull the masses. I'm talking about meteorological, geological, celestial (asteroids, etc.), and man's basic evil nature. If man exercises enough restraint to keep from killing his fellow man, then hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes, earthquakes, and meteor strikes will do the job. For example, how many people are aware that we sit atop the LARGEST soon-to-be-active volcano in Yellowstone?

Anyways, back to the point on space travel. It was commonly stated during the Cold War years that our space program had many practical applications to life on earth. The pursuit of reaching for the stars resulted in many new technologies that benefit us today. Do you not believe that it is still true for today that continuing our space program will result in newer and better technologies -- technologies that can help us keep our edge over the rest of the world (terrorists included!) as it did the former Soviet Union?

[SethFWF]

raiderblack said:

Iraq will be a free democratic country. We will continue to capture and kill the evil bastards who do these things. And the more the bastards bomb innocent muslims the less support they get from the people in the middle east. Their days are numbered, the Iraqi government gets stronger everyday and we will begin to withdraw our troops in 2006.

And when the Almighty US eradicates all terrorists from the planet, there will be peace, security, and a warm fuzzy feeling for all humans. Aint gonna work that way, despite how nice it sounds and how great it would be if that kind of optimism could be rewarded. They always say there's only 2 definites, death and taxes...but there's another one that's even more definite(if that's possible), the fact that mankind will always be best at one thing...killing each other. That will continue and get worse no matter how many countries we invade, free from tyranny, and turn to Democracy. Even as terrorism is starting to just feel the heat right now, a new wave of destruction is in it's infancy, spawned by God only knows what kind of insanity. And this will go on until something far more powerful than feable human beings steps in and stops it. And no, God is not on George Bush, Tony Blair, or the crooked evangelists sides...among the terrorists those are good people(well, maybe not the evangelists)...but their bottom line is not doing Gods will, but...well you know.

mortansan said:

Anyways, back to the point on space travel. It was commonly stated during the Cold War years that our space program had many practical applications to life on earth. The pursuit of reaching for the stars resulted in many new technologies that benefit us today. Do you not believe that it is still true for today that continuing our space program will result in newer and better technologies -- technologies that can help us keep our edge over the rest of the world (terrorists included!) as it did the former Soviet Union?

That goes back to the same priorities for mankind, technology that allows us(or any country) to be the best at killing everyone else and being the top dog. Of course it's necessary to have a good defense, but you see why it's a bit of a conundrum when we can't even feed or provide health insurance to many of our own people...much less those around the world we claim to love and protect because there's so much money spent on things like this. The Space Program is only one way we spend too much, we're not even privy to the billions spent on unnecessary gov't bullshit. That's just human nature though, and as stated above...it won't change, so I don't expect it to until such time as the greatest, most powerful forces on the planet have no choice.

Seth

[Shark Black]

sethfwf said:

And when the Almighty US eradicates all terrorists from the planet, there will be peace, security, and a warm fuzzy feeling for all humans. Aint gonna work that way, despite how nice it sounds and how great it would be if that kind of optimism could be rewarded. They always say there's only 2 definites, death and taxes...but there's another one that's even more definite(if that's possible), the fact that mankind will always be best at one thing...killing each other. That will continue and get worse no matter how many countries we invade, free from tyranny, and turn to Democracy. Even as terrorism is starting to just feel the heat right now, a new wave of destruction is in it's infancy, spawned by God only knows what kind of insanity. And this will go on until something far more powerful than feable human beings steps in and stops it. And no, God is not on George Bush, Tony Blair, or the crooked evangelists sides...among the terrorists those are good people(well, maybe not the evangelists)...but their bottom line is not doing Gods will, but...well you know.

Duder Mc Dudely... look around you. Look at the real Democracies. They do not Kill each other. And it's not all about kicking butt, even though keeping them away from the most destructive methods of terrorism is a main goal. I agree we should always do more to secure our borders. but for the most part the west is a world without borders so you just have to go after the cancer. You watch, when the rest of the free nations wake up and get it ( they finally are to some degree)...hopefully not too late... Terrorsim will be something we no longer have to worry about on a day to day basis. And last but not least when the Muslim Nations wake up and see what these fuckerrs have done by hijacking their religion...This will happen too.. (already has to some degree, The polls all show a big drop in Muslim nations in their support of Bin Laden) things will change for the better.

If you take away this terrorsim nonsense the world as a whole has become more democratic, more peaceful, and more prosperous.

I liken this whole situation to the people who do nothing while some thug beats and robs somebody, because they don't want to get involved, because it's immediately safer. When if they all rushed the dude it would be done with. But no, they take the safe route they take the uncaring route, the next thing they know their neighborhood is a slum. Peace takes maintenance, you gotta deal with issues before they get too big, like the Taliban or Saddam. Then were better off in the long run. But nooo we ignored it for far too long watching it build throught the 60s 70s 80s 90s...

We can't go back to sticking our heads in the sand... What we are doing now will pay off big time. It just takes a little patience...

[SethFWF]

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic about the war on terror, but if/when there is an end to it...it will be decades before we see it. It is unreasonable though to think that human rule will ever bring about lasting worldwide peace.

Seth

[Fox]

I heard a brit call it 7/7 and compare it to 9/11, I guess I lost interest then. 3000 deaths compared to 50? Lame.

Not that it makes it right or anything. I hope the brits don't pull a spain.

Of course if the terrorists wanted us out of the middle east all they have to do is behave and turn themselves in, we'd be gone fast as we could. what a bunch of idiots.

[Shark Black]

fox said:

I heard a brit call it 7/7 and compare it to 9/11, I guess I lost interest then. 3000 deaths compared to 50? Lame.

Not that it makes it right or anything. I hope the brits don't pull a spain.

Of course if the terrorists wanted us out of the middle east all they have to do is behave and turn themselves in, we'd be gone fast as we could. what a bunch of idiots.

The Brits will never turn and run. They get it. And now they get it even more.

Your last statement is the truest thing anyone has ever said. I often thought to myself.... Why are the Muslim Nations not coming down hard on Bin Laden for bringing the free world in to defend their countries. He and Al Zarqawi have brought more destruction to their countries both by their bombs and by forcing the west into the fight.

And Seth the world will never be free of conflict. But their is clear path to a better world and that's freedom. Where ever it goes the path it lays is a better one.

[SethFWF]

raiderblack said:

And Seth the world will never be free of conflict. But their is clear path to a better world and that's freedom. Where ever it goes the path it lays is a better one.

This always turns into a philisophical debate, which makes sense when talking about the more distant future of humankind and the planet.

Ultimately, freedom works and makes lives better for people for a time. But only for a time because human nature will never allow freedom to reign. It's a great thing and should be the correct path for all, but "man will dominate man to his injury" and the imperfect state we're in is not going to improve. As long as we reside in this state, no well wishes for freedom throughout the world is going to amount to a hill of beans. We will continue to find more things to fight about, mans desire for power and domination will get worse. Especially if we continue to 'crowd' the earth, which brings back the subject of space travel which I thought I'd comment on in another thread.

Seth