Why so quiet in here???

[SethFWF]

I thought if anything would jump start this room it would be Obama's election and soon to be inauguration.

What's everyone think? I'm personally not a fan, feel like the guy isn't honest even for a politician. Also think he's trying to be far-left because he thinks he has to in order to balance what Bush has done the last 8 years. He's in for a rude awakening on many issues.

First, I've never been a big Bush fan and have been pretty critical over the years...but also have never been a top tier Bush-Hater by any means. But it does irk me to no end how this new administration somehow thinks they would have done better with the economy under the same set of circumstances that he had to deal with. Actually in a general observation of politics and politicians, they always defend their own and say they really don't have that much control over what happens in the economy anyway, but yet everything that's happened this last year is 100% Bush's fault. Rude awakening #1, there's very little Barack will do to help this economy...and many of his plans may have the opposite effect. Therefore, rude awakening #2 comes when he can't come through with a good deal of his promises...his special interest groups won't be happy and neither will a huge portion of his currently rabid supporters. At some point his approval rating is going to look a lot like the outgoing's does.

And the biggest challenge he'll face is maintaining some sense of security in this country, while I don't agree with parts of what Bush did post 9/11...I do think we at least commanded(even if in a nasty way) respect with regards to what we could and would do if fucked with again. Barack isn't prepared to deal with foreign affairs, he has no idea what to do with terrorist nations, very well organized and prepared terrorist organizations...and currently has said very little if anything about the Israel/Gaza fiasco(as if there's anything that can really be done over there anyway). Biggest and most dangerous rude awakening, how's this guy(oh yeah and former Gov. of my state Napalitano as HomeLand Security Secretary... ) gonna keep us safe and yet appease his far left, way too liberal constituents when it comes to the 'proper way to protect the country'?

It sucks being a middle of the road person politically, cuz everyone looks like a clown...but IMO Obama looks much scarier as the incoming 'leader of America and therefore most powerful man in the world' than McCain did.

Seth

[BenMech]

I have NO IDEA where you're getting this impression, but you're wrong. Obama's a centrist, but from the REAL center, not the far right's version of "center" which is why everyone who isn't a fascist mini Jack Bauer is always being accused of being a traitor or the like.

Anyway, I like him and his family, Voted for him in each place I could. There really wasn't any other candidate with anything to say who could actually organize a mass worth voting (Don't mention Ron Paul)

[SethFWF]

I did say Ben, that he's "trying to be far-left". He reached out to the desperate left wing of the country, they organized very well and were lucky to get a huge amount of votes from people who really didn't care about the issues...but just wanted the Repubs out no matter who was running against them.

He ran on a very left platform IMO, when it comes to the economy, taxing, spending, etc... A lot of his foreign policy talk came from a left standpoint because again, he has no idea what he's doing when it comes to that. But as long as it was anti-whatever Bush has done, it got the masses out to vote.

Having said all that, he won't actually be that far left by any means...simply because he'll find it's not practicle or possible. And there's one of my major problems, as with all politicians...the promises will go unfulfilled and many of those that love him now won't in time. Like the kid running for class prez making all kinds of crazy promises to get elected, he went overboard with the expectations of what he could do for the economy and the country's security.

From a personal standpoint, he does seem like a likeable guy...not so sure about the wife in that regard though(which doesn't matter in any real way). And maybe I would have liked him more, but I do feel he's hiding some things and hasn't been completely forthcoming about his past. There's a lot of propaganda of course, but there's also a lot of doubt left in my mind about his associations and if he really hasn't been influenced by people we'd never elect to any gov't position. There's also a few too many gov'ts and groups around the world that supported him in words and money that make me wonder what their agenda is with him and why they're so happy he got elected.

Anyway, the economy will come back on it's own and in it's own time...it was way up during part of Bush's reign and had little to do with Bush, same thing as when it's down. How long it takes, how far it goes and whether or not it crashes again will be effected by many factors...but major, way out of proportion actions certainly won't help matters.

I do hope when he's officially in, reality will set in when he sees how things actually work...maybe he'll do OK. I'll reserve anymore judgement till then.

Seth

[BenMech]

Sorry Seth, you sound brainwashed. End of discussion.

[SethFWF]

Definitely not brainwashed, but I don't see things in just black and white(no pun there of course).

[Fox]

Obama is far to the left if you ask me. I don't expect to change anyone's mind. The nation has been hoodwinked though.

[SethFWF]

At least part of what I predicted has come true, down goes the approval rating. No surprise, this is a radical administration with radical ideas of how to bring about 'big change' for the country.

So at some point the other things I predicted may well come about also, Obama not being able to follow through with many of his promises because it's just not practical. From a common sense perspective and certainly not financially. First of all, the stimulus is not working...nobody can convince me that anything is better. I have to laugh at these folks that say, 'look, the market's going up'.... #ohgoon# As if that means anything to the average american, and also it can(and likely will) come back down just as fast. It's a fabricated market that gets adjusted by the powers that be as they see fit.

No, Obama did not inherit this entire economy fiasco...he brought about a good deal of it in record time after taking office. Bush made plenty of mistakes, but he and the Repubs are not fully responsible for this mess...after all, the Dems controlled congress for the last 2 years of his reign.

In Obama's defense, it would be quite difficult to fix this mess...whoever's 'fault' it is. But what he's doing is going to make things worse, and what he's done so far isn't the answer...therefore the crumbling of his support.

The jury's still out on foreign affairs(and still out on the economy too, I'm no Nostrodamus), but I'm hardly convinced he's gonna do a good job at keeping the country safe with all the 'bleeding heart/ultra-liberal' rhetoric going on in his admin. I mean, let's read miranda rights to terrorist combatants over in Afgan. and Iraq... Then let's release a bunch of them too, they won't try to hurt us again, right! And we hardly need to worry about the Mexican border!

Not even gonna touch on "Cap and Tax" or health care reform right now, been following along pretty good on both issues...but can't really say I've formed a solid opinion on them. At this point I think the fact that we need to rush all this stuff through yesterday, without reading it, understanding it, or even taking the time to do some trials or something...brings me back to my original statement, I don't trust the guy. There's no reason to push so hard for such massive changes so quickly, beyond fishy.

[BenMech]

:::sigh:::

[Fox]

I think 'big change' is referring to all the soon to be worthless American dollars lying around.

[SethFWF]

"Pocket change you can believe in"

[SethFWF]

Well, after almost 18 months ago when I started this thread...I guess I'll stir a terd.

Just a snippet from what I said then.......

"Actually in a general observation of politics and politicians, they always defend their own and say they really don't have that much control over what happens in the economy anyway, but yet everything that's happened this last year is 100% Bush's fault. Rude awakening #1, there's very little Barack will do to help this economy...and many of his plans may have the opposite effect. Therefore, rude awakening #2 comes when he can't come through with a good deal of his promises...his special interest groups won't be happy and neither will a huge portion of his currently rabid supporters. At some point his approval rating is going to look a lot like the outgoing's does."


Unfortunately for all of us I was wrong, things are even worse than I thought they would be....

I'll pass on any talk of international affairs, unless it pertains to the 'world economy'. Far as the wars I remain nuetral in my opinion of what Obama has done there, he's doing what needs to be done...though in some cases he continues to show no sense of urgency or actual interest.

The oil spill, again not much to be said...I don't expect the guy to swim down there and fix it. I do have to laugh over the parallels between this and Katrina though, the left has re-invented, improved and modernized the double standard and propaganda. Not that both parties don't do it, they do...but this is laughable.

What's not laughable is his approach(or lack of until he realized he might get votes for it) to the immigration issue. I live in Phoenix and work most of my week in Yuma, part of 1 day right on the border in San Luis. I know what's going on down here, I've watched for 14 years how the border and the state have deteriorated...and yes, the Bush admin. did little to help it. Like most I have no problem with 'legal immigration', but the fact that this president who knows nothing about AZ, won't even take the time to come down here(too busy golfing and rubbing elbows with celebs) can sit there and condemn the AZ law when it's weaker than the federal law that he refuses to uphold.

As a side note, I'm listening to King Obama now talk about the issue, and of course what did he say? That when they last tried to pass immigration reform it fell apart, and now the republicans that were on board for it back then aren't now. And what did he forget to say? That he voted against it last time, matter of fact...I watched a very detailed documentary on HBO about that whole thing. It was written by the left and from their point of view, but even they didn't bury the fact that neither side could get on board and agree to anything. Of course it's all the right's fault though.

Here he goes with his propaganda, "the border is safer now than ever before".... What a joke, the guy has no idea what he's talking about...just talking the party line and hoping the American people are dumb enough to buy it. Problem is, they're not, they're waking up to not just his bullshit...but the whole gov't in general.

Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the country, and second only to Mexico city in the world. Drugs, weapons and undocumented people are coming over here daily, American citizens are dying. If you watch the local news down here, 70% of the crimes committed are by illegals. No, the border is not safer now...it's worse. But as has been the case from this president and admin. in other cases, the American people are far less important than the votes he might get by amnesty for 12 million before he even bothers to secure the border.

Big change is coming, and it's not what he had in mind.

Thank God.

[BenMech]

:::sigh::::

[SethFWF]

Your opinion still hasn't changed Ben? Of course that's fine, just curious cuz there are a lot of people that were pretty high on Obama at first that have changed their minds.

Do you really agree with him and the ultra-lefties on the immigration issue? That one hits me more I guess(not that the rest of what's going on isn't important) since I live here and have seen this shit going on for years. And I would be all for 'immigration reform' mind you, I'm not at all happy with how the fed. doesn't seem to want to secure the border before declaring amnesty for 12 million people. Who by the way all go on the gov't payroll immediately, health care, welfare...and who pays? Of course we're already paying and that's the problem, ask CA why they're so broke...and yet they're crying about our horrible law that hasn't even gone into effect yet. Way too much medicinal wacky weed goin' on over there, it's fine for regular folk...but I'd rather the people running the country weren't completely stoned while doing so.

And let's be sure to keep the border wide open while we discuss amnesty, wonder if we can fit another 111 million people in our country? I'm sure they're all great, hard working, honest people and won't cost us a thing. By the way, I've worked with a ton of hispanics in my years down here...most of them are awesome people. But believe me, they're not all so awesome.

Anyway, we all have and are entitled to our opinions...this issue has me so dumbfounded though. For the life of me I can't figure out why common sense doesn't prevail, how many more people have to die, how many more drop houses with 50-100 Mexican nationals who are starving and dying in the heat have to be found? How much more drugs should we allow into the country to continue destroying lives, and how far should we let the economy tank before we stop the bleeding on at least one wound?

I guess when votes and power come into play, all common sense goes away. I love when the prez. points out how many things are broken in this country, health care, immigration, economics, oil dependency, etc............

Sorry to say it Mr. President, the biggest thing that's broken and needs more than anything else to be fixed.....the Federal Gov't!!!

;D

[BenMech]

My opinion is that we live in a fragile moment.

I don't LOVE Obama, but much as I probably painted any conservative with the Bush/Neocon brush and used the word fascism at one point, I DON'T know if I'm seeing the other side of that plate or if I am not.

[SethFWF]

Fair enough.

Agree 100% about the 'fragile moment'.