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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Dec 14, 2005 13:12:19 GMT -5
"It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong. As president I am responsible for the decision to go into Iraq."
Is the administration finally waking up to reality? And did it take those plummeting approval ratings for it to happen?
I think I am in shock.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Dec 14, 2005 18:33:01 GMT -5
I was just reading an article about that too, I'm not all that shocked though...I mean he's got to know that he'll be more respected if he at least says what he said.
At the same time, there's not going to be any backtracking on whether we should have went at all...at least not yet. Bush himself may never say that, but I do believe in the years to come...some in his admin. may talk differently about it.
I still say the job has to be finished, I'm not on board for yanking the troops...and not because we would look weak doing it. But because whenever you start something, you should finish it...good advice for kids all the way up to the leaders of the world. But 'finish' is a very obscure word in this case, he says... "Victory will be achieved by meeting certain objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq's democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country," he said. "These objectives, not timetables set by politicians in Washington, will drive our force levels in Iraq."
OK, those are good objectives...but how realistic is it that Iraq will ever be free from terrorism and not be a target for anti-democracy extremists? That's my continuing problem with this war, that we feel it makes sense to try and set up a Democratic gov't in that part of the world. The ensuing violence and unrest will go on and on and the cost we've had to bear just up to now is immense. Worth it to help other people in the world? Tough question when you don't really know that it will help them ultimately.
My other grievance, and I know I harp on this a lot is pointing to the rest of the intel from various sources that also said they had WMDs...trying to justify a wrong with another one. While it might be seen as a reasonable excuse by some, to me going to war and sending thousands to die is far to much of a huge move to not take more time to make sure this intel was correct. They didn't take enough time, period...or they would have gotten the right info. May not have changed the decision to go, but it would have been a hell of a lot harder to get the support...and maybe some better planning could have been done instead.
Oh well, been over this a million times...just hoping our country and troops don't take much more in the kisser before we leave them to try and make a go of it.
Seth
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Dec 14, 2005 19:21:39 GMT -5
IT CHANGES NOTHING.
OVER 2000 soldiers are still dead, plus all the civilians.
Saddam MAY be the leader in a monkey trial, but this just leaves me ill.
We still have the right to change our government when they act against the interests of our country, and of mankind in general. I say bring out the chopping block. Let's have some heads rolling. Rumsfeld first. Then Rice, then Cheney, then Bush Sr. Then Bush Jr, then Rove.
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Dec 14, 2005 21:35:21 GMT -5
First off, it's not the first time Bush has said those words.
Secondly, People said the same thing about Japan, they can never be democratic. Plus there already is a democratic Muslim nation in the area it's called Turkey, a very successful country... Now with Afghanistan and Iraq, Egypt now holding Elections, Lebenon now holding elections... it very realistic... and don't foget history... Democracy nearly always sticks
Thirdly How is standing up against the terrorists, who chop heads off of innocent people and blow up people at weddings, against the intrests of mankind. How is helping Iraq build a free democracy and deliver them from the sadistic bastard who ruled them with and iron fist and murdered hundred thousands of it's citizens not in the interest of mandkind.
The arguments against this don't hold water...
70 percent of Iraqi's are happy with their situation today. And they are optimistic for the future.
Like this one 90 year old Iraqi lady said as she voted yesterday. If anyone doesn't understand that this is a great thing and that it wouldn't have happened without America and George Bush, they can go to hell.
How is taking down Sadaam not in our intrest? He attacked his neighbors, he shot at our planes, he attempted to assinate our President, he finacially back terrosts in the Middle East, he has stated that he was an enemy of the US. We and the middle east are safer without him hands down.
And as for the 2000 dead American soldiers, they were doing what they signed up to do. Protect us all and bring freedom to the Iraqi people. They went out with more meaning and honor and have done more for mankind in their short lives than we'll ever have done or do in ours if we live to be 100.
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Post by Gonzalo el Silenciado on Dec 14, 2005 23:17:10 GMT -5
Put the crack pipe down, Brett. All i said was that i was shocked that he actually said 'the intelligence was wrong.' And he never had admitted that so directly.
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Dec 15, 2005 2:31:45 GMT -5
OK, **Wait one more hit!! ** Don't get upset homie... I didn't really have anything much to say about your post. In fact Bush was much more direct in his speech this morning. Just that he has admitted that intellegence was wrong before. And he has always put the decision to invade squarely on his shoulders. It's just that when the worlds bullies are killing people in Rwanda it was a terrible thing everyone knows "we should have done something". When Milosevic is committing war crimes we stepped in and it was OK. But step in in Iraq as Saddam is doing the same thing and it's somehow wrong.... Well it's not wrong, it's the same dang thing. It may be a lot harder, but it's still right. And I think there are many who are twisting this thing for politcal advantage and are duping many Americans. I find that very wrong. I'm not talking about the ones who think that we shouldn't intervene no matter what. At least they aren't hypocrites, misguided maybe So many of these guys like Kerry were on board and voted for military intervention and now they act like they were intentionally lied to or something when they had the same intellegence.... and now Kerry's accusing our servicemen and women of terrorizing women and children in the middle of the night....total BS he's doing the same crap all over again. And thats my position... Goddamit!! Where's my PIPE!!! Now I'll
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Dec 15, 2005 13:08:44 GMT -5
How is taking down Sadaam not in our intrest? He attacked his neighbors, he shot at our planes, he attempted to assassinate our President That's NOT our current president. Who you are describing is the current POTUS's FATHER. That makes this entire Iraq shakedown a PERSONAL VENDETTA, which, I might add, IS NOT in the country's best interest. If we attacked Saudi Arabia instead and forced a dramatic change in government from the scariness it is there to democracy, then I'd say everything is justified.
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Dec 15, 2005 20:55:38 GMT -5
I just call it Justice
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BenMech
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
The One You Warned Me Of
Posts: 1,470
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Post by BenMech on Dec 15, 2005 21:44:12 GMT -5
NO, you don't. Because it ISN'T
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Dec 15, 2005 22:01:52 GMT -5
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