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Post by ProgRocker on Apr 12, 2005 7:18:02 GMT -5
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Apr 12, 2005 19:07:35 GMT -5
Pffft.....gimme a break! Kuwait gave Mr. Al-Baghdadi a slap on the wrist compared to what he could have received under Saddam Hussein. He is exaggerating his fear of death (oooh...a possible one-year prison sentence for violating probation ) so that he can elicit sympathy toward his asylum application. Kuwait has the right to be a country with censorship laws. Mr. Al-Baghdadi is being punished not persecuted.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Apr 12, 2005 19:22:34 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's not really democratic with freedom of speech and expression at it's best. Which is what I think Andre was getting at...we need to liberate the world eventually for even these minor offenses...(sarcasm off)... Seth
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Apr 13, 2005 6:24:33 GMT -5
Since when did Kuwait ever pretend to be a democratic republic? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the emir and the crown prince members of the same royal family? Nothing democratic about that, and therefore no need to be concerned about freedom of expression over there.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Apr 13, 2005 6:44:52 GMT -5
That's where the sarcasm came in. As we did with Iraq, we need to liberate Kuwait from this tyranny... Seth
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Apr 13, 2005 20:21:50 GMT -5
Yeah, okay, I get it. Say, didn't you know there's a better way of conveying sarcasm than by putting "sarcasm off!" in parentheses? Really, though, I thought "The Arena" was supposed to be about serious debate. I have no problem with sarcastic replies per se, but the topic itself ought not be rooted in sarcasm.
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SethFWF
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
"Rattle your God damn head!"
Posts: 1,405
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Post by SethFWF on Apr 14, 2005 18:13:31 GMT -5
Well, Andre hasn't commented directly...so maybe he wasn't being sarcastic. I shouldn't speak for him, but it did sound that way.
Seth
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Apr 14, 2005 18:48:23 GMT -5
Actually, I think you make an excellent ventriloquist.
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Apr 14, 2005 22:24:29 GMT -5
Talk to me when he gets his tongue cut out, his ear cut off and then dropped off a 4 story building, like so many in Iraq under Hussein.
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Post by ProgRocker on Apr 15, 2005 6:39:03 GMT -5
Talk to me when he gets his tongue cut out, his ear cut off and then dropped off a 4 story building, like so many in Iraq under Hussein. Here we go again, excusing bad behavior by worse. I was being sarcastic, pointing out how the doctrine of "spreading freedom" would necessarily lead us to war with pretty much 90% of the rest of the world.
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Fox
Monument http://www.fateswa
Posts: 368
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Post by Fox on Apr 15, 2005 7:50:13 GMT -5
Progrocker are you suggesting that if you help one old lady cross a street, you are therefore obligated to help all old ladies cross the street?
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Sir Van Talvin
Monument http://www.fateswa
The Barbarian at the Ivory Gate
Posts: 460
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Post by Sir Van Talvin on Apr 15, 2005 9:15:20 GMT -5
....pointing out how the doctrine of "spreading freedom" would necessarily lead us to war with pretty much 90% of the rest of the world. A significant flaw in your argument is that it fails to recognize that war is only a PART of the startegy in "spreading freedom". It is an OPTION that is used at the DISCRETION of whomever is sitting in the Oval Office. It is not some mathematical formula that must always be applied to a set of problems.
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Post by ProgRocker on Apr 15, 2005 12:29:59 GMT -5
Discretion = whim
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Apr 15, 2005 13:35:31 GMT -5
Here we go again, excusing bad behavior by worse. I was being sarcastic, pointing out how the doctrine of "spreading freedom" would necessarily lead us to war with pretty much 90% of the rest of the world. As you stated, You were the one in a smart ass way (thats not meant as a derogatory statement, I am the biggest smart ass alive that was equating this with Iraq, and there is no equivalence. But taking out the worst offenders is not a bad thing to me. Of course we can't go into every country that does not espouse our values, but when it evolves into something as horrid and dangerous as Iraq was, then something needed to be done and what was being done was insufficient. I in no way excuse the behaviour, But this shit has been going on in the Middle East for the last bazillion years. A Democratic free middle east would put a check on these things. Maybe Iraq will be the catalyst for change in the region. It's already having that effect. At least Kuwait is a somewhat open society, so these things actually reach people such as you good buddy
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Shark Black
At Fates Hands http://www.fat
AKA Raiderblack
Posts: 1,352
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Post by Shark Black on Apr 15, 2005 13:38:45 GMT -5
It's been the doctrine of the US that Saddam had to go since way back in the Clinton whitehouse. Over a decade of resolutions and wars with this tyrant hardly institutes a whim when it finally went down.
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